As the old school thumb lever is getting upgraded to the new school thumb pad switch, yes please! Having a wrap-a-round is going to be the new normal, even if i never actually do “normal”.
Firstly, a HUGE thank you for the board owner for allowing this thread to be the size it has become, hopefully many will be able to enjoy the end result when this project is done and dusted.
Just confirming, before the new tech becomes a monster
With the linear servos, I am using RTP to increase/decrease total overall gearing by +/- 1 using the U & D buttons, (0-27) and using the L-R buttons to fine tune the rear gears (0-6) to suit riding abilities/conditions.
With the LTP, i am able to move the gearsets +/- 3 or +/- 6, to get me back to a factor of 3 gearing, so then I can use the RTP to again fine tune gears/transition gears without getting thumb tied and frazzled
Are these two descriptions of RTP then equivalent?:
-
“Then the RTP is
L = -1 RG
U = +1 FG
R = +1 RG
D = -1 FG”
Which of the 4 have wraparound? all?; and -
"I am using RTP to
increase/decrease total overall gearing by +/- 1 using the U & D buttons, (0-27), and
using the L-R buttons to fine tune the rear gears (0-6) to suit riding abilities/conditions.
I’m beginning to see that answer will be “They are almost the same, but both U&D (front) and L&R (rear) incrementing are different and each is useful”
Is it because incrementing (and decrementing) the rear gear with L&R does only 3 wraparounds going from 0-27 and doing the same on the front gear 0-27 requires 6 wraparounds?
When would you use each? It seems to me rear gear 0-27 is always faster.
Does each go through the overall gears 0-27? or is that only the rear?
Perhaps the RTP, since you wish to use it as a fine tune after an LTP press, should just be only overall gear change, only relative, and no post math adjustment other than clipping at 0 and 27. +1, +2, -2, or -1 in the L, U, R, D order. This makes for easy correction for the +/-2 imprecision that the factor of 3 gearing and the smart LTP leaves you with. Why have 28 gears if it’s difficult to access ALL of them quickly?
Also, as I understand it, your legs know if cadence needs a 0, 1, or 2 correction after an LTP change. If the smarts always assumes the direction is the same as your most recent gear change, then only 2 buttons, “Correct by 1” and “Correct by 2” would do it, leaving you free to use the other two thumb pad buttons for serious stuff like a “Hi,there!” horn, a “Get out of the Way!” horn, Ludicrous Mode, an Ejection seat, Push to talk, Toggle Hero Camera, or whatever you’d like to be thumb ready!
As long as I’m asking, which of these the preferred naming of nodes leaving the node names to be their given functional meaning, renaming to show what they accomplish in the application (patch), or is a mix like I did. ok?
Delete #1
Use #2, as a wrap around is going to throw me from 14 teeth up to 44 teeth, equivalent to throwing a car at 100mph into 1st accidentally.
I have 28 gears to build up my confidence to be able to hit the top end speed.
I might not get to G28 immediately, cos at 110rpm/55 SPM(strokes per minute) the mathematical speed is 517KPH, and turning the 12V windscreen wiper motor on in G28 takes the mathematical speed up to 915KPH!
RTP
U -> G0-27 OGI(Overall Gear Increment)
D -> G27-0 OGI
L -> RG -1
R -> RG +1
LTP
L -> +3
U -> +6
R -> -6
D -> -3
@mitch-bogart
in the latest XODball, what are the two watch panels on the lower left for?
When Simulate is off, the watch nodes display their names.
I found this useful for debugging.
The top one is “Signed jump amount”, which is +3, +6, -6, or -3.
The bottom one is “Raw Final Gear” which is OG plus the jump amount, not yet snapped to the multiple of 3 or 6.
So in the example of G17 -6, the Signed jump amount is -6, and
the Raw Final Gear is 17-6 or 11
The New Overall Gear, 12, is the Raw Final Gear after that snapping.
The snapping correction could use some comments; not sure how to add them.
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That makes sense now, there was too much info to see everything clearly on my phone, the Surface Pro 4 has taken to flickering so severely, I can’t read anything.
Seems a bit important. So, to be clear for the RTP:
If one is in OG20, which is FG2-RG6, and you do a RTP-R (+1), you don’t get a wraparound, remaining in the same gears. If you do an RTP-U (OGI +1), however, you get a wraparound when going to OGI 21, which is FG3-RG0.
The teeth jumping happens, but it is expected because you did an OGI.
It is important for a RG +1 to stop at RG6 so you don’t get unexpected teeth jumping.
This is part of the benefit of keeping some direct control of only RG.
Is this all correct?
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The electric gear shifting is different, totally, to the thumb shifting.
Thumb shifting means you have to manually change two levers at the same time, and you would “normally” (I rarely do “normal”) only be moving the rear gears to get a bit faster, or to ease off your cadence.
As we will be instantaneously able to change the gears, by hitting +1, the RTP will use the look up table to get the next gear, I’m not worrying about the teeth jumps, the linear servos should be able to do it all very smoothly 
The attached new version has the RTP added with those effects. This gear logic has 8 boolean tweak nodes instead of buttons. You set the CURRENT GEAR, and (only) one of the TP tweak nodes to True. The NEXT GEAR watch node shows the next gear. I test all the buttons in mid ranges and at transition points. All GEAR tweaks are in the center and boolean tweaks are at the top.
If you are in Gear 7 - Gear 13 and press RTP-L or RTP-R, you always stay in a gear in that range, which changes only the rear gear. RTP-U and RTP-D also change by 1 gear, but you can go anywhere 0-27.
Below is a capture of the Simulator test patch followed by the three examples of:
- G12 and press of RTP-L (+1R) yields new gear of G13; (FG1 and RG6)
- G13 and press of RTP-L (+1R) yields new gear of G13;
This is a rear gear +1 change so no wraparound to G14 (FG2 and RG0) - G13 and press of RTP-U (+1) does yield new gear of G14 (FG2 and RG0);
Gear change simulator:
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LTP and RTP for F-RQ.xodball (30.7 KB)
Simulation of G12 with +1R --> G13 rear gear increment
Simulation of G13 with +1R --> G13 rear gear can’t increment - no wraparound
Simulation of G13 with +1G --> G14 RTP-U is a +1 of overall gear, with wraparaounds
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To assist in finding the important bits;
Comment 20 & 22:- 28 position Gear Indicator.xodball
Bike gears.xodball
bike gears with motor.xodball
Comment 26:- explanation of above xodball
Comment 55:- Linear Servo Motor link
Comment 77:- Linear Servo Positions
Comment 92:- Electronic Gear Changing
Comment 119:- LTP for Down Under F-RQ.xodball (Left Thumb Pad)
Comment 131:- LTP & RTP for F-RQ (Right Thumb Pad)
@mitch-bogart
Mitch, when I try the LTP & RTP for F-RQ.xodball, I set the current gear to G13, with the LTP (-6), and the following watch screens appear
Have I got everything correctly connected?
Yes, it was connected as shown. I checked this out with G13 (-6) and got the same crazy result. I tracked it down and corrected it. Attached below.
Here is a proper (as in new) version. That now comes at as 9, which I believe is correct.
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Try it out. Tx
LTP and RTP for F-RQ fix1.xodball (31.6 KB)
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@mitch-bogart, thanx for the correction, but it still shows G9 as the next gear from G13 (-6), instead of just dropping it back to G12
?
Wait! I just checked your first rules. It’s not that you always round to the gear multiple of 3.
Rather,
A shift of 3 or -3 always ends up on a multiple of 3 without shifting too far.
A shift of 6 or -6 always ends up on a multiple of 6 without shifting too far.
I’ll change it (and label it fix2)
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Thanx
And does the RTP-U/D utilise the gear look up table in Comment 92? So that it automatically goes to the next gear in ratio sequence, not physical gear?
Also how do we incorporate the 28 position gear change LCD/watch screen into everything?
PeterT
RTP-U/D does up and down through gears 0-27 (Overall Gears “1-28” for the user perhaps)
Thus it may change the front gear, too, if the rear gear goes below 0 or beyond 6
Everything uses the gear look-up table which are servo positions. It gets filled in whenever you reset the first and last servo positions for the front and/or back and press a menu or button to fill in all the in between servo positions
Also, just to be clear about the LTP operation, is this uploaded spreadsheet correct? I’m especially concerned at what is logical to happen when you shift up or down below 0 or above 27. For example G18 thru G27 (+6) Do they all go to the highest gear multiple of 6, which is 24, or do some go all the way to the highest, G27?
(F-RQ LTP - Sheet1.pdf (20.9 KB))
Regarding the LCD screen to replace the watch nodes, you create one or more fixed layouts of what information should be on the 2 or 4 line LCD screen. There are also now 4 line 40 and 4 line 60 char displays. If XOD supports them. A patch then always writes the whole thing whenever anything changes. The write is fast. The text parts look static and any numbers that change look “live”. For example a current display could be:
(Line 1) Gear <1-28> Front Rear <1-7>
(Line 2) Cadence: xxxx Speed: xxxxx
(Line 3)
(Line 4)
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The spread sheet looked fine on my phone, I’ll double check when I get home from work.
So I don’t confuse myself, Overall Gears (OG)1-28 and Calculated Gears (CG0-27)
With the LTP, the gears can’t exceed OG1 & 28/CG0-27, and that also applies to the RTP.
In OG18 -> OG24/CG17 ->CG23 all gears +/- 3/6 only go to multiples of 3 or 6